In the middle of August, Katia and I made it to Minneapolis for a weekend of basking in the last bit of a Minnesota summer. On a patio in Uptown, we sat down withย Simsย for a chat, who quickly brought overย Cecil Otterย to join in and chat about his upcoming Good Time Zoo Tour (dates below), the next creative project (it floats) fromย Doomtree, Throne watching and much more! Catch the wordsmiths as they crisscross the nation starting September 17th in Salt Lake City.
Howโs the reception been for Bad Time Zoo? Are you working on any new videos for that coming up?
[Sims] Itโs been great. It was really good at the beginning and it still seems to be picking up pace. Thereโs a video for LMG (โLove My Girlโ) coming out in a couple of weeks in early September. And we have an EP called Wildlifecoming out on August 30th. We printed off some physicals for people who we thought would like them. So if you pre-order tickets you get a signed poster and a signed copy of the Wildlife EP. Weโre not going to be giving out physicals to anyone else. The rest will be digital/online.
[Katia] So Bad Time Zoo was with animal stuff, would you ever do your next album prehistoric? Dinosaurs?
[Sims] Go back in time? You have to keep going forward. Whatโs after animals?
[John] Robotic animals.
[Sims] See all of this is good fodder for me to start on the next record. Robot Animals Part One is coming out hopefully next fall. But weโll see. We just finished the Doomtree album called No Kings. Thatโs going to be coming out November 22nd, and itโs pretty awesome if I do say so myself. Super proud of it. And after that we have releases from pretty much all other four rappers in Doomtree probably before I get mine out. So all that stuff is in the works for 2012, which is the last year that the Earth exists so I better get something out before the fall! Hopefully nano-technology takes a big leap in the six months because otherwise weโre fucked!
[Cecil Otter] Our next group project is going to be building a really big boat.
[Sims] An ark, yeah. A fire-proof and brimstone-proof ark.
[Katia] Then whatโre you going to store on the ark?
[Sims] One of everything.
[Cecil] The name of the ark will be Lilโ of Everything.
[John] So where did No Kings come from?
[Sims] We actually have a lot of that symbolism throughout our past projects. Even on the cover of Bad Time Zoo thereโs a No Kings logo on it. It goes back to Mike Mictlan, who had a song, โKings are gonna die.โ Itโs sort of a general philosophy that we have that to me means acknowledging your own sovereignty. You accept no oppression and no authoritarian rule over yourself. And you make up the rules for you. And you treat everyone with the same amount of respect. You donโt try to rule over anybody else. And you accept no rules over yourself. You can apply it to a musical sense. We never tried to work with a major label or anything like that. We sort of donโt take losses, we do this on our own. We appreciate people who have done it on their own in their past and those in the future who will do it on their own.
Weโre all level to begin with. Weโre all equals to begin with. Thatโs the mentality that we carry. Iโm always interested in this because, and this is going to sound egotistical but whatever. When weโre done with interviews, people are always like, โYou guys are real level headed and down to earth.โ And itโs just the way that we carry ourselves because thatโs how we actually think. Itโs who we actually are. We donโt get caught up in all that other unimportant sort of narcissism. Let everything else be what it is and weโll just be us and people we want to be, which is open down-to-earth people.
Thatโs what No Kings means to me, I donโt know what it means to Cecil or anyone else.
[Cecil] I pretty much felt that way forever. And since Iโve been 17, Iโve been tagging this crossed out crown from everything Iโve ever done. And Mike and Sims got it last year, hand-drawn and sent on a text. Iโve just never liked the idea of kings, kingdoms and being better than the other. More talents. So like, โYou have more talent soโฆโ of the oppressor and the oppressed. Iโd rather not be a part of either of those and walk above it. I donโt want to oppressed or be oppressed, I just want to look forward and keep going and not have people drag you back. Then you have to think about all that shit and you end up back at square one. Then youโre still you just looking forward. It just seems like a sideshow that I donโt want to be a part of.
[Katia] What if Kanye asked you guys to join the Throne?
[Cecil] I would do it because I wouldnโt join it as a king. Iโd be like, โIโd fucking hang out.โ I donโt mind being creative and making music. Itโs not a part to be like, โNow I did that, thatโs a stepping stone.โ Iโd feel, โOkay, cool.โ
[Sims] Iโd love to make music with those guys. โWatch the Throneโ is some rhetoric. Itโs just a title for a thing. Those dudes have been on top, Jayespecially has been on top for almost fifteen years as the number one rapper. Thatโs deserved. He can say whatever he wants at this point because heโs paid his dues. He survived the number one spot. When you look at someone like 50 Cent who was at the number one spot and kind of is not at the spot anymore, then someone like Jay-Z whoโs longevity and ability to keep it fresh and keep moving is pretty impressive.
[Cecil] And bringing so many other people into it with him. Like, โI see so much talent here. Thatโs talent wasted. You gotta be here.โ Itโs not like, โI see dollar signs.โ He definitely knows how to pick โem. Like, โI see that intensity and tenacity. Please come join us, I wanna to share this with you.โ
[Sims] Totally. And it seems like heโs not trying to get over on people, which is cool. Heโs just interested in pushing the art. And thatโs what I think is interesting about Kanye is that he actually cares about music in general so much that he comes off as a dickhead. He just does dumb things, like Taylor Swift. I feel like that was because he cared so hard about music that he believed it so much, โBeyoncรฉ had the better video. She won that award.โ He believed it so much that he had to get up there and say that. Now whatever it is about him that makes him think that anyone cares what he has to say is something beyond it, but he cares so much that he feels like he needs to. Thereโs a redeeming quality in that, despite that complete disregard for someone elseโs feelings.
[John] Youโre right on that because he brought on Justin Vernon for his last album, that was completely out of left field and ran with it.
[Sims] Yep, totally. Bon Iverโs got talent to spare. And 808s and Heartbreak was co-written by Kid Cudi, which is the same kind of thing. When someone gets inspired, they get inspired. And if itโs someone else thatโs inspiring you, you bring them on board to work with you.
[Cecil] And it just proves that he knows good music too. Knowing Justin and all these other people, he said we were just talking about music. Then he was like, โโI need you on my new albumโ, and all of a sudden Iโm getting flown out to Hawaii, playing basketball and sitting in the studio for hours.โ That changed my whole perception because I didnโt listen to Kanye, but that is just fucking cool. He sees people with great potential and just wants to work with them to make the greatest album possible.
[Sims] You know whatโs cool. I donโt know if Kanye or Jay run their twitter or their blogs, but Kanye posted a P.O.S. about two years ago or a year ago, and about a month ago Jay-Z tweeted about Wugazi and put that up on his blog too. If itโs not them directly, someone is paying attention to music and they obviously still care about music even on a microscopic level like Doomtree. Compared to Kanye West and Jay-Z, Doomtree is a grain of sand, nonexistent thing that theyโre paying enough attention that they find out about Bon Iver and P.O.S. and Wugazi.
[John] Which is shocking that they can do that given their level and how busy they are.
[Sims] So maybe what it is is they understand how busy they are, and maybe they donโt find that music themselves but theyโre still interested in finding music so much so that they keep someone on to discover new music for them and bring it to them. You know what I mean? Thatโs cool in and of itself that that job exists. They find it so important that they have to hire out that job, even if it works like that. I donโt know. Maybe they do have time to check the internet.
[John] When youโre ever on tour, what do you say to people who come up and say, โIโm really inspired by what youโre doing, do you have any advice?โ
[Sims] I guess what I tell people are a few things. A) Donโt ever expect to make money off music or be a career musician. Even if you get the opportunity to not work for a few years and just make music, donโt expect that to last and donโt be attached to the money that comes or does not come from making music. Remember why you want to make music and what the best parts about it are for you. My other advice is to meet people at shows, be as cool and approachable as you can possibly be. Offer to open for as many people as you possibly can for free for as long as it takes until you notice that youโre bringing more people than the guy whoโs coming after you. Then try to book your own show once you build up with the promoters. You have to meet the promoters and be cool with them. And then try to book your own show. Itโs the way Doomtree did it.
We played over a hundred shows in Minneapolis in one year and we didnโt take checks for any of them. Maybe we got $50, maybe we got $100 and we would save all that money and invest it into used equipment and print CDs from there. Build it really slow.
[John] So how did you start as an artist?
[Sims] Well I was in bands when I was in junior high, and great terrible bands.
[Cecil] Little bands like Soundgarden, ummโฆBlack Crowes. Black Crowesโฆthat was a good band!
[Sims] [laughs] Yeah, then I started rapping when I was 14 or so and never took it seriously. I just liked to freestyle and hang out with friends. Started writing songs about 15. Started a rap crew that lasted when I was 16 to 17. Then a different rap crew from 17 to about 19, then that kind of dissolved as people moved away and it was just me still. Started hanging out with P.O.S. and Cecil Otter. Theyโd be kicking me beats, and calling me up and telling me to come over to the studio to record. Coordinated some songs, then they asked me to play a show with them. Maybe a week or so later they asked if I wanted to be in Doomtree.
[Cecil] I actually remember, itโs a funny story that just popped into my head. Weโd go to parties with Charlie, a friend of ours. We all went to Hopkins but I was a few years ahead of Sims. Every once in a while weโd hang out with my friend Charlie at some house party where someoneโs parents are out of town. Iโm like, โDude, I have my own place. We can go there and drink!โ And heโd be like, โNooo, but itโs going to be a cool party!โ Out in Hopkins, I remember sitting at this table and Sims wasnโt there. Someoneโs like, โOhhh, youโre in the Doomtree thing too, right?โ This was years back, before you even became to Stefโs place and I knew who you were. Someoneโs talking about freestyle or something like that. โWill you freestyle? Cause we want to freestyle.โ Some girl came up and sheโs like, โAndrew Sims can rap waaay better than all you guys. Iโm just saying, Iโve seen that motherfucker flow!โ [laughs] She walking out with a beer and jumps in the pool. Iโm like, โWhat the fuck was that?โ โIโm just sayingโ!โ She just hated me for rapping, saying, โIt should be Andrew rapping.โ And I was like, โWho the fuck is Andrew?โ [laughs] She showed up to the party on a motorcycle and came through the door.
[Sims] I havenโt had that many male friends slash friends, but Iโve always had a squad of girls who believed in me. They keep me going.
[Cecil] Itโs like, โOh, heโs way hotter than you and he totally rapped with the word โorange.’โ [laughs]
[Sims] 90% of the Bad Time Zoo buyers are female. Props to yโall keeping me in business! Sorry about the weddingโฆ
[Katia] Are you excited to seeing your name on the marquee, and not have it be that youโre getting married?
[Sims] Yeah, Iโm excited. I am excited to go out and see what itโs like to headline a tour and hopefully not feel much pressure. Iโve seen a few people go out on their first headlining tours. Iโve been support on the first headlining tours of P.O.S. and Dessa. It was a lot of pressure for them โcause if no one shows up itโs kind of on them. But not on me โcause Iโm opening! Iโve got nothinโ to do with that! Thatโs you baby! Hopefully I just keep it cool and donโt feel any pressure. It should be fun. Iโve got Cecil Otter coming with. Lazerbeak, Paper Tiger. Iโm more excited to hit the road with those guys because itโs a good squad.
[John] Relatedly, so if you were touring and had Groundhogโs Day the movie happen to you, which town or city would you want to be in?
[Cecil] I would say Portland, Maine personally.
[Sims] Iโd say, Seattle, San Francisco, Chicagoโฆand Denver.
[John] Would you save children in every single town and learn how to play piano?
[Sims] [laughs] Absolutely not! I would never save a child! Thatโs a ridiculous question, โWould you save a child?โ
I would support a child, but it would have to be overseas strictly for the head shots that I would get for them on a weekly basis. Iโm just interested in collecting childโs head shots, not actually saving a child.
[Cecil] Que sera, sera bro!
[John] So howโd you get involved with Red Rocks and Snowboard on the Rocks?
[Sims] Weโve been amateur geologists for about six weeks or so. And we really love red rocks above any other color of rock that weโve ever found.
[Cecil] Because you donโt have to squeeze blood from the rock, โcause the shitโs already red. Job done! [laughs]
[Sims] The progression was natural to play at the largest formation of red rocks that we can find that has a venue built into it. What happened was Snowboard Magazine founders hit us up and asked if we would play there.
[Cecil] That dude Andrew from PBR brought it up to Brian McDunnah outside of the patio at Leaning Tower. He said you should bring it up to crew, you could play Red Rocks. I was like, โYes!โ And I kept sending it to Paper Tiger, not throwing him under the bus but if youโd like to hang outโฆbut I was sending him messages, Brian was sending him messages, Andrew from PBR who was setting up the show was setting up messagesโฆJohn, sorry bro. Itโs a snowboard festival.
[Sims] So itโs the release of their new video for the year. Last year they had The Cool Kids and somebody else play. This year, itโs their second year doing it and they have RJD2 and us playing it.
[Cecil] That amphitheater is ridiculously awesome. Itโs just in the middle of the mountains.
[Sims] We stopped there one time in the middle of the day while on tour, walked around Red Rocks for a while. Then swam in a creek, which turned out to be the town water reserve. And met a wonderful majestic dog called Pepperberg Jenkins and had a great afternoon with him.
[Cecil] [laughs] It was perfect! Weโre like laying down, we found our spot in the rocks. We were loving it. Weโre cracking up and this gorgeous dog just comes out, sits down next to us. Weโre like, โWhatโs his name?! Whatโs his name?! โฆ Itโs PEPPERBERG JENKINS! PERFECT!โ We hung out, it didnโt bark or anything. We just played with him. The cop rolls up because we had walked down these rocks to get there. Heโs like, โYou guys canโt be in there!โ โWhat??โ โItโs the townโs drinking water!โ And then sure enough we get in the car to drive and we see all the water leads into the town! Then as we were leaving like every person was taking a drink of water in slow motion! [laughs]
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[Katia] When youโre on tour, is there someone to take the dad role?
[Sims] Paper Tiger. Beak will help with all that. Weโre all pretty self-sufficient.
[Cecil] Itโs pretty much a bunch of dadโs all running around. [laughs] Like, does this work? Yeah, that works.
[Sims] At this point, we all know the drill about how to tour. The biggest challenge is the schedule to make it to the next show on time. Weโre doing 25 shows but weโre covering the entire coastal loop of the country. Thereโs going to be a few really long drives back to back to back, ten-hour drive days kind of thing. Itโll get a little exhausting but other than that itโll be cool. You get back to the hotel around 3 in the morning and then you have to leave around 8 to get to the show around doors time. Those days when you string them together are never fun. The show is always fun, but the whole day itself is exhausting. It gets grueling but the only dad part about it would be whoโs going to wake everybody up.
[Katia] Who do you guys like to share beds with when youโre on tour?
[Sims] Nobody likes to share a bed with me because Iโm a cuddlier.
[Cecil] And nobody like to share a bed with John (Paper Tiger). So I try to make it work that way where me and Beak gets the bed where weโre back to back. But yeah, Sims likes to cuddle. So youโll be likeโฆ
[Sims] Wrong bed dude! [laughs]
[Katia] If you could have one member of Wu-Tang over for dinner, whoโd it be?
[Sims] RZA. A cubed steak so I can tell him it was perpendicular to the square. [laughs]
Oh man, my favorite storyโฆit never happened butโฆPaper Tiger and Cecil used to host breakfast at this one restaurant called The Egg & I. One morning Aesop Rock was in there and Cecil was going to make him a root beer float and bring it over to him and say, โSo I heard yโall want a float.โ That wouldโve been the best fucking moment ever! I guarantee he wouldโve remember that moment to this day.
[Cecil] Yours is much better than mine. Iโd have Olโ Dirty Bastard and cook a crawfish รฉtouffรฉe with no joke behind it. Thereโs no punchline! Iโd love to know what he would think about my รฉtouffรฉeโฆ
Sorry guys, I need a moment. Turn the computer off! [laughs]
Tour Dates (with Lazerbeak & Cecil Otter):
9/16 โ Denver, CO โ Red Rocks Amphiteater โSnowboard on the Rocksโ Film Festival (Full Doomtree Collective)
9/17 โ Salt Lake City, UT โ Kilby Court (early show) / Urban Lounge (late show)
9/19 โ Seattle, WA โ Crocodile
9/20 โ Portland, OR โ Branx
9/21 โ Reno, NV โ Tonic
9/22 โ San Francisco, CA โ Brick and Mortar
9/23 โ San Diego, CA โ Soda Bar
9/24 โ Los Angeles, CA โ The Central
9/26 โ Phoenix, AZ โ Chasers
9/27 โ Albuquerque, NM โ Moonlight Lounge
9/29 โ Austin, TX โ Beauty Bar
9/30 โ Dallas, TX โ Club Dada
10/1 โ Columbia, MO โ Mojoโs
10/2 โ St. Louis, MO โ Ciceroโs
10/4 โ Washington, DC โ DC9
10/5 โ Philadelphia, PA โ North Star Bar
10/6 โ Brooklyn, NY โ Knitting Factory
10/7 โ Boston, MA โ OโBrienโs
10/8 โ Pittsburgh, PA โ Smiling Moose
10/9 โ Pontiac, MI โ Pike Room at Crofoot
10/10 โ Chicago, IL โ Bottom Lounge (upstairs)
10/15 โ Minneapolis, MN โ Fine Line Cafe (TBC)
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